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Economic Views => Economics => Topic started by: Francesco on June 13, 2007, 11:19:58 AM



Title: Crack Up Boom
Post by: Francesco on June 13, 2007, 11:19:58 AM
Sapete come la penso, per me il crack up boom e' in corso, e rimane lo scenario piu' probabile, direi quasi inevitabile di questo delirio da fiat currency degli ultimi 35 anni. Ecco uno che la pensa come me:

"Reading Von Mises “Theory of Money and Credit” back in prehistoric times, when I was in my twenties, I remember his all-too-brief comment which was in the following sense: Even if a world-wide inflation [of the money supply, naturally] were to take place, with no redemption of banknotes for gold, the crack-up boom would still take place.

Well, I never thought I’d see the day that would happen, but here it is! I do think we are in the initial stages of the crack-up boom. Outrageous prices are being paid for all sorts of things. A clear sign. The boom is gathering speed right now. The end cannot be far off.

A sign of the end approaching is - rising interest rates, a phenomenon just beginning! And notice also, the trend from long-dated maturities to short-dated maturities. This recalls John Exter’s inverted “Pyramid”, with 30 year bonds at the top, next shorter maturities, beneath them is cash (sight deposits at banks), and under cash, GOLD. Investors will begin to migrate from long maturities, to short maturities, finally to cash holdings and last of all - gold. John Exter was at one time a very high executive at Citibank. He originated a famous saying: “The US Dollar is an “I O U nothing”.


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: momus on June 13, 2007, 11:23:46 AM
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/andros/2007/0608.html  ;D


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: momus on June 22, 2007, 11:44:44 AM
The Crack-Up Boom series is exploring the unfolding “Indirect Exchange” (as detailed by Ludvig von Mises), that dollar holders will be using now to exit their holdings and eventually will be followed by all holders of fiat currency holdings, no matter which country is perpetrating the “fraud” of confiscation of wealth through the printing and credit creation process that all such monetary schemes evolve into. The “Crack-up Boom” will drive an inflationary global expansion to inconceivable heights over the coming years. Asset prices will skyrocket as people do what they always do when threatened; they will modify their behavior and do the things necessary for “SELF PRESERVATION” of their families, countries, economies and their wealth. Let’s take a look at von Mises’ description of the CRACK-UP BOOM once again:

This first stage of the inflationary process may last for many years. While it lasts, the prices of many goods and services are not yet adjusted to the altered money relation. There are still people in the country who have not yet become aware of the fact that they are confronted with a price revolution which will finally result in a considerable rise of all prices, although the extent of this rise will not be the same in the various commodities and services. These people still believe that prices one day will drop. Waiting for this day, they restrict their purchases and concomitantly increase their cash holdings. As long as such ideas are still held by public opinion, it is not yet too late for the government to abandon its inflationary policy.

But then finally the masses wake up. They become suddenly aware of the fact that inflation is a deliberate policy and will go on endlessly. A breakdown occurs. The crack-up boom appears. Everybody is anxious to swap his money against "real" goods, no matter whether he needs them or not, no matter how much money he has to pay for them. Within a very short time, within a few weeks or even days, the things which were used as money are no longer used as media of exchange. They become scrap paper. Nobody wants to give away anything against them.

It was this that happened with the Continental currency in America in 1781, with the French mandats territoriaux in 1796, and with the German mark in 1923. It will happen again whenever the same conditions appear. If a thing has to be used as a medium of exchange, public opinion must not believe that the quantity of this thing will increase beyond all bounds. Inflation is a policy that cannot last. Thanks again, Ludvig.


questo è il terzo articolo che quest'autore scrive sul crack up boom , ci crede, ci crede


http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/andros/2007/0621.html



Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: AlessioR on June 24, 2007, 03:13:46 PM
ma va'....figuriamoci se succede.

http://www.snb.ch/en/iabout/assets/id/assets_structure
La riga prima del grafico "Currency reserves serve to prevent and overcome potential crises."



Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: Francesco on June 28, 2007, 09:32:29 PM
Anche Sir Bill Bonner si unisce al coro di "quelli che il crack up boom", ma specifica, non si tratta di un crackup boom normale questa volta, come quello di Weimar o quello in corso nello Zimbawe, ma di un CracK Up Boom MONDIALE... ma non siete anche voi tutti eccitati??? siamo i primi a poter assistere a un crack up boom di portata globale... yum!

http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/crack-up-boom/2007/06/26/

"No one, anywhere, has ever seen a worldwide Crack Up Boom. We’re the first, ever. Pretty exciting, huh?"


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: Roberto on June 29, 2007, 11:47:05 AM
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ma non siete anche voi tutti eccitati??? siamo i primi a poter assistere a un crack up boom di portata globale... yum!

Se il dopo del crack up mondiale assomiglierà al dopo crack up di Weimar (nazismo) ma stavolta su scala mondiale ne faccio volentieri a meno (e la cosa sarebbe tutt'altro che improbabile).


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: momus on June 29, 2007, 03:10:45 PM
Quote
ma non siete anche voi tutti eccitati??? siamo i primi a poter assistere a un crack up boom di portata globale... yum!

Se il dopo del crack up mondiale assomiglierà al dopo crack up di Weimar (nazismo) ma stavolta su scala mondiale ne faccio volentieri a meno (e la cosa sarebbe tutt'altro che improbabile).

già, una catastrofe su scala planetaria , non proprio eccitante.


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: clockworkgold on June 29, 2007, 04:10:44 PM
è sicuramente vero che c'è quel rischio, ma non credo che sia per pietà dei miliardi di poveri cristi che ora i governi in potere tentano di mascherare il crack-up-boom e far slittare in sordina i regimi verso un nazismo strisciante.
C'è la diffusa e tacita assunzione che è l'unica possibilità che abbiamo per evitare la catastrofe?
Bene, allora vado contro corrente e dichiaro che preferisco la catastrofe.


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: momus on June 29, 2007, 04:36:09 PM
si certo, però magari come conseguenza del crack up boom

potremmo ritrovarci qualcosa di simile al nazismo e  magari nemmeno tanto strisciante 


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: momus on June 29, 2007, 04:46:11 PM
e intanto Andros continua :

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/andros/2007/0628.html


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: clockworkgold on June 29, 2007, 04:56:35 PM
sarà pure, momus, ma non credi che questo approccio da struzzo con la mascheratura dei problemi e il nazismo strisciante non porti poi a valle ad una catastrofe ancora peggiore?

Vale sempre il principio che dilazionare la soluzione di un problema con le stesse prassi che lo hanno creato lo ingigantisce, e quindi più si resiste peggio è.

Del resto quando ci sarà una elite del 2% dell'umanità a gestire un 98% di schiavi credo che la rivoluzione cruenta e il casino più totale saranno inevitabili. Non credi?


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: gardel on June 29, 2007, 05:35:23 PM
questo 2% ha il prepuzio tagliato? ;D


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: John Smith on June 29, 2007, 05:55:45 PM
questo 2% ha il prepuzio tagliato? ;D


il 2% (che poi è anche meno) è il POTERE (finanziario in questo caso)
Ma sopra il POTERE si erge l' AUTORITA' che lo sovrasta, e lo legittima per utilizzarlo a piacere.
Il potere è un soldato armato: HA il potere che gli conferisce l'arma
L'autorità non HA. L'autorità E'. L'autorità conta per il solo fatto di essere se stessa.
Detta in soldoni, c'è chi, con  la sola forza della parola, potrebbe delegittimare e
cancellare il truffone in due minuti o poco più. Chiediti perchè non lo fa.




Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: momus on June 29, 2007, 06:25:53 PM
sarà pure, momus, ma non credi che questo approccio da struzzo con la mascheratura dei problemi e il nazismo strisciante non porti poi a valle ad una catastrofe ancora peggiore?

Vale sempre il principio che dilazionare la soluzione di un problema con le stesse prassi che lo hanno creato lo ingigantisce, e quindi più si resiste peggio è.

Del resto quando ci sarà una elite del 2% dell'umanità a gestire un 98% di schiavi credo che la rivoluzione cruenta e il casino più totale saranno inevitabili. Non credi?


certo, dilazionare o posticipare la soluzione di un problema non fa altro che ingigantirlo, questo è scontato.

temo però la "soluzione".
il che non impica , a scanso di equivoci, che mi piaccia l'andazzo 

tu forse ti aspetti forse il ripristino del gold standard?


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: clockworkgold on June 30, 2007, 09:55:17 AM
no, non mi aspetto il ripristino del gold standard.
Piuttosto mi aspetto (a questo punto dovrei dire spero) uno scivolone di qualche tipo dei burattinai, che gli faccia crollare tutto addosso al più presto. Più presto è meglio è, perché più riescono a dilazionare peggio sarà la catastrofe quando inevitabilmente la realtà complessa li coglirà in fallo in qualche modo.
Mi aspetto quindi, e ci spero, una serie di tracollini a catena tipo quello del periodo 2000-2003, con la loro brav reazione di aggiustamento e guerre circoscritte.
Poi la realtà come dico è complessa. In qualche modo potranno forse riuscire, dopo alcuni di questi tracolli, a varare una nuova moneta e far digerire alla popolazione mondiale gli squilibri attuali attraverso un bel periodo di catarsi.


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: John Smith on June 30, 2007, 10:26:00 AM
In qualche modo potranno forse riuscire, dopo alcuni di questi tracolli, a varare una nuova moneta e far digerire alla popolazione mondiale gli squilibri attuali attraverso un bel periodo di catarsi.

Ciao. Permettimi di dissentire. Per varare la nuova moneta bisogna prima distruggere la vecchia, e questo può avvenire solo per iperinflazione. Un crack, paradossalmente, salverebbe la moneta perchè la rivaluterebbe:
- nell'incertezza, la gente vuol stare liquida
- a fallire sarebbero i debitori
- sarebbero favorite le classi medie, che non hanno debiti, quando invece è sotto gli occhi che ci sia la voglia di eliminarle.
Inoltre, se davvero si volesse agire come dici, dovrebbero averlo già fatto. Invece, la realtà dei fatti dimostra che stiamo andando nella direzione opposta. Per cui non credo che vedremo i tracolli che dici. Ribassi, quelli sì.
Ma soprattutto per me c'è l'aspetto cospirativo ("noi scateneremo gli atei e i nichilisti...") sul quale non godo di molto credito e quindi lascio stare ;D


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: AlessioR on December 15, 2007, 10:21:32 PM
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/12/14/18466914.php
Quote
Our economic system: is this the end of the world’s economic Pyramid Scheme?


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: Francesco on February 06, 2008, 12:44:01 AM
Questo potrebbe essere interessante per andare a fondo sui diversi scenari che ci aspettano davanti a livello macroeconomico e di sistema monetario:

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=26304#poststop

Il crackupboom misesiano viene escluso per gli usa, perchè si dice, sono necessari quattro fattori per causare una spirale iperinflazionistica:

   1. Large and growing external debt as a percentage of GDP with falling GDP (Yes, like the US.)
   2. Politically and economically isolated and irrelevant (Not like the US. Think: Zimbabwe.)
   3. No external demand for the currency (Not like the US dollar. Think: Iraqi Dinar.)
   4. Political chaos (i.e., tanks rolling down the street, not like the US.)


Non sono molto d'accordo. Il crackupboom secondo me è possibilissimo. Ovviamente non coinvolgerà solo gli USA, sarà un crackupboom di estensione globale. Oramai è tardi e leggerò il pezzo con più attenzione domani. Si tratta di una discussione sicuramente molto interessante.


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: L.Baggiani on February 06, 2008, 09:12:59 AM
   1. Large and growing external debt as a percentage of GDP with falling GDP (Yes, like the US.)
   2. Politically and economically isolated and irrelevant (Not like the US. Think: Zimbabwe.)
   3. No external demand for the currency (Not like the US dollar. Think: Iraqi Dinar.)
   4. Political chaos (i.e., tanks rolling down the street, not like the US.)


Senza aver letto l'articolo, osserverei che la 2) o non è rilevante o anzi nel caso è un'aggravante, perché l'apertura economica consente la fuga dei capitali; la 3) non prende in considerazione lo shift da dollaro a euro; la 4) non mi pare rilevante né teoricamente né storicamente.
Il crollo dopo il fiat boom è un fatto economico e in un certo senso meccanico; è solo questione di tempo.


Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: AlessioR on March 28, 2008, 10:05:38 PM
http://www.gata.org/node/6181
Murray Pollitt: People don't yet see it's a money problem, but they will
Quote
Yet for the moment, even as manifestations of inflation intensify, the popular wisdom is that commodities have been in a bubble phase. Nobody is worried about the integrity of money. Nobody sees well-publicized financial upheavals as propelling the flight out of money; rather, economic gurus argue that safety lies in holding cash or bonds.
The latter remain strong and it's still the mortgage/sub-prime/Bear Stearns/hedge fund stuff that makes the headlines. Soon enough it will be derivatives, and then perhaps people will grasp that this is a money problemmore than anything else.
In fact the monetary system is moving into its death throes. Back in the early 1960s, when the first cracks in Bretton Woods and the US dollar appeared, the predecessors to the G7 cooked up the General Agreement to Borrow (GAB) with a whopping $6 billion aid package. Another innovation that was supposed to solve the world's problems was the introduction of Special Drawing Rights (advertised as "paper gold").We all seek refuge somewhere. Bond guys cannot believe stocks, gold guys think that "gold in the ground" is undervalued, and financial services guys are in shock. The hyperinflation guys (that's us) cannot believe bonds but see the resilience in solid stocks and commodities as a perfectly logical flight out of money. Strong manufacturers with sophisticated assets and proprietary
wealth (such as P&G or CAT) will thrive and prosper, along with resources, long after the money is gone.
Gold, the real thing, will probably outperform most shares.
Quote
wealth (such as P&G or CAT)
su questi sono un pò meno d'accordo anche se considerati beni "reali"...sul reso... :2thumbsup:



Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: AlessioR on May 18, 2008, 01:18:14 PM
http://www.safehaven.com/article-10269.htm
Inflate Away Debt? Three Lessons from History
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US money supply growth is running at a 47-year high...
"Clearly printing such huge amounts of money is not great for the exchange rate. A weak Dollar has forced the hand of other central banks as they try and keep their currencies competitive with it."
But might the scam work? Not if China, Japan and the big Dollar-holders of the Arab oil kingdoms can help it. Will they really let their own currencies rise just so the United States stuffs them by paying its debts with devalued Dollars?
Inflation, it's claimed, eases the burden of settling your debts. But for government and private debtors alike, that's only true if your income rises faster than your on-going cost of expenditure. Otherwise, you end up struggling to make ends meet today, only to leave yesterday's debts for repayment tomorrow again...
however this latest attempt to inflate away debt pans out in the long run, it's sure to make history...

vediamo se richiamiamo l'attenzione di nuovi lettori che voglion comprendere il "perchè"
http://www.federalreserve.gov/Releases/H6/discm3.htm Discontinuance of M3
Quote
Will they really let their own currencies rise
http://www.usemlab.com/html/analisi/tributo.htm
Quote
E' questo, che lo si voglia ammettere o meno, il fine ultimo delle autorità americane..reintegrare la ricchezza del sistema economico nazionale con il contributo ma soprattutto a spese della ricchezza del resto del mondo...L'economia più forte del pianeta che in un anno aumenta la propria massa monetaria del 15-18% (le stime cambiano a seconda della definizione di M presa in considerazione) a fronte di una contrazione del GDP, e la cui valuta mantiene saldamente il proprio valore nei confronti delle altre, rappresenta senza alcun dubbio una forma di tassazione implicita per tutti coloro che accettano il dollaro come forma di pagamento...



Title: Re: Crack Up Boom
Post by: AlessioR on May 24, 2008, 10:00:46 PM
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=4860.3130.0.0
Is Zimbabwe-style Inflation Coming to America?

Quote
...To deal with his economic problems, Mugabe decided to crank up the printing presses and create the money needed to pay the bills. As his economy collapsed, the massive money-printing scheme only helped to speed the descent. When you print money by the boat load, then drop it by helicopters into the economy, there can only be one probable result—hyperinflation. All existing money in circulation rapidly became worthless. People’s life savings were destroyed, the cost of bananas and toothpaste soared into the thousands, and businesses could no longer function. Zimbabwe, once the crown jewel of Africa, became a basket case...
The lesson for America is that we are traveling a similarly precarious course...
A society grows rich by producing things … and saving money. There is no other way. Cheaper credit won’t do it. More consumption won’t help. Printing money—and dumping it from helicopters—is a losing proposition...
But America has already embarked on a money-printing scheme of historic proportions. U.S. money supply, as measured by M3, is expanding at a yearly rate of almost 18 percent. That is a rate probably not seen since the war years...
 
And there are signs that all the money creation is beginning to affect prices. Check out these recent headlines from Bloomberg, Reuters and the Dallas Morning News.
Oil Rises Above $101 to Record on Increased Demand, Rate Cuts
Gold, Silver Futures Rebound on Demand for Inflation Hedge
New York Bond Costs Rise as Banks Let Auctions Fail
Electricity Prices Likely to Rise, Experts Say
U.S. Economy: Housing Slump Fails to Quell Inflation
Chips, Beer Off the Grocery List as Inflation Bites
Foodmakers Squeezed by Costs, Strapped Consumers
Creating money out of thin air may temporarily stimulate an economy, but as history clearly shows, the medicine is eventually worse than the disease. The end is always the same—a worthless currency, a destroyed economy and a bankrupt nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Bernanke
Ben Bernanke
In 2002, when the word "deflation" began appearing in the business news, Bernanke gave a speech about deflation.[12] In that speech, he mentioned that the government in a fiat money system owns the physical means of creating money. Control of the means of production for money implies that the government can always avoid deflation by simply issuing more money. (He referred to a statement made by Milton Friedman about using a "helicopter drop" of money into the economy to fight deflation.) Bernanke's critics have since referred to him as "Helicopter Ben" or to his "helicopter printing press". In a footnote to his speech, Bernanke noted that "people know that inflation erodes the real value of the government's debt and, therefore, that it is in the interest of the government to create some inflation